[00:00:00] Lindsay McCormick: It's so important kind of as like a small bootstrap company that we know our customer through and through and through. They're already understanding that high quality products come at an upcharge because if it didn't then everything will be high quality and you know, so explaining the choices that you make transparency is so important, especially when you're a mission-driven brand.

[00:00:18] Lindsay McCormick: So your blog is different to your Instagram, to your Tik Tok, to Twitter and kind of just making them all really tailored to the customer who is preferring that vertical of communication.

[00:00:41]

[00:00:41] Jason Wong: This episode is brought to you by Varos, where I've been a happy user for nearly a year. At doe lashes, our digital marketing and Shopify metrics have been fluctuating like crazy. First iOS 14, then the pandemic, then supply chain breakdown, war, and now the economy. I often find myself asking, is it just our CAD going up or is everyone else's too?[00:01:00]

[00:01:00] Jason Wong: That's why I, along with many other founders in my network started using Varos. With Varos, I'm able to maximize performance by seeing Facebook, Google, and Tik Tok metrics like CPMs, Kat, and click through rates from over 700 other DTC brands in real time. And yes, I said 700. Every company gets a custom competitive set by vertical, AOV, and spend, so you can compare it to an aggregated and anonymized set of companies just like yours. Varos is free for podcast listeners for a limited time. So join now at Varos.com. That is VAROSTo get grandfathered into the free plan, just write Wong in the referral field.

[00:01:38] Jason Wong: Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the building box podcast show.

[00:01:42] Jason Wong: Today I'm joined by Lindsey McCormick, who is the founder and CEO of Bite toothpase. Welcome.

[00:01:49] Lindsay McCormick: Hey, Jason. Thanks for having me.

[00:01:51] Jason Wong: Are you guys still caught bite toothpaste?? Cause I know you guys just came out with deodorant. Is it just bite now?

[00:01:56] Lindsay McCormick: Yeah. So we're going by bite now, which stands for, because it's the earth.

[00:01:59] Jason Wong: [00:02:00] Oh, I didn't even know that was the abbreviation. It was that like initially.

[00:02:06] Lindsay McCormick: Retrofitted as we've kind of expanded into personal care, we wanted to have something that's more inclusive of like, you know, kind of where we're going in instead of just where we've been. But we still go by bite toothpaste and bite toothpaste bits..

[00:02:18] Lindsay McCormick: But, uh, yeah, because it's the earth is our future.

[00:02:20] Jason Wong: That's interesting. And I really want to talk to you a little bit more about like the whole rebranding, cause we're in the same place where we were doe lashes. And now we're trying to be just doe cause we're coming out with contact lens. We're coming out with like all these eye products.

[00:02:33] Jason Wong: And so I'll talk to you about that on the side, but today I really want to talk to you about the brand in general, because you guys are in this new category for sustainable products. And it seems like that's been the market direction the past couple of years. You guys are obviously been here for a while now. Uh, I'm quite keen to understand what led you down the path of being a sustainable brand and some of the steps that you took to be a sustainable.

[00:02:59] Lindsay McCormick: [00:03:00] Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I think the first thing is that when I started by back in 2018, um, I started it because I've always been super passionate about conservation and the environment, and I wanted to have an option, you know, I found out about the billion toothpaste tubes that ended up in our oceans and landfills, and I wanted to solve that problem. Um, I didn't have a background in oral care or business, so I had to learn everything as I went along. Um, but I think, you know, because I was so passionate about sustainability, um, that was kind of the motivation that really pushed me through to kind of overcome all the obstacles to get here.

[00:03:37] Jason Wong: I love that. And I just feel like there's so many parallels between our stories. I obviously didn't grow up wearing lashes. Never touched a pair of lashes until I started making doe. So it's refreshing to meet another founder who was like, oh yeah, I didn't come from a dentist background and started making toothpaste but it makes sense. Like that number was such a shock to you that you were, I guess, [00:04:00] motivated to say let's change it, right?

[00:04:03] Lindsay McCormick: Yeah. I mean, so before bite I was working as a surf instructor right here in Malibu, and I was noticing over the four years, like every summer out there, more and more plastic washing up on my board. So that was something where it was like, wow, plastic is a problem. And then, um, while I was then after working as a surf instructor, I actually got a job as a TV producer with the goal to make nature documentaries that -and like conservation documentaries -that was my ultimate kind of like career ambition. Uh, and it was during that when you're, when you're producing a TV show, you fly somewhere for just like a few days so it's always carry on only. And I was going through those little toothpaste tubes and it just felt like a really thick piece of plastic that I was throwing out every single week. And, you know, I had everything else that was refillable: my shampoo, my conditioner, I could refill those in little bottles, but I couldn't solve the toothpaste problem.

[00:04:53] Lindsay McCormick: And so that was kind of what the, it had like the beginning of everything and, uh, and kind of [00:05:00] the launching board that bite that ended up being bite.

[00:05:03] Jason Wong: I love that. And, you know, like a sustainable brand is something that, in my opinion involves a lot of the lifestyle part of the marketing because you know, sustainable is just a word in the entire branding. But there's a lot of things that you have to do to push that messaging forward.

[00:05:19] Jason Wong: What are some of the things that you guys have done to really cement this part of your brand together?

[00:05:24] Lindsay McCormick: So I think something really important, with any mission driven brand, right? Whether it's sustainability or any mission is being able to take these really complex and nuanced um, nuanced information and break it down in a relatable and entertaining way.

[00:05:41] Lindsay McCormick: I think, you know, um, that's something that I learned in my job in TV before this, you know, kind of wanting to work in documentaries, the most effective, the most effective ways to get through to people and to have people understand, you know, what you're trying to do is by making sure that they are able to like emotionally connect and visualize it.

[00:05:58] Lindsay McCormick: So when we talk about toothpaste [00:06:00] tubes, you know, we say the 1 billion toothpaste tubes but that's really abstract. So when, almost in every time when we explain that, we talk about how it equates to 50 Empire State Buildings worth of plastic every year. And so you're able to say like, oh, here's a visual, like here's visually what they're talking about. And I think it, um, it's way more effective that way.

[00:06:20] Lindsay McCormick: So I think, you know, whether you're, whatever your message is, being able to break it down into something that's visual, something that's tangible, something that your audience can really understand is just super, super important and something always top of mind for us.

[00:06:32] Jason Wong: I love that. And sustainable product is just the product itself.. You know, there's the jar, you reuse it, you get the refill. How do you as a company solve the logistic side of the bigger equation, because obviously you still need to ship things. You still need to receive things.

[00:06:49] Jason Wong: There's so many other parts of the business that could be um, I guess, refined to be more sustainable. What are some steps up bite has taken to move towards that direction?

[00:06:58] Lindsay McCormick: I love this. So [00:07:00] there's so many things you can do up and down your supply chain. So something that's really important to us and that we, uh, educate our customers about is that we only shipped through USPS.

[00:07:11] Lindsay McCormick: Which means USPS is kind of like the public transit of mailing where it's not, you know, if you ship the, you know, Amazon Prime, or overnight, not even overnight priority , UPS, any of those FedEx, whatever, they're actually going in a determined route to your house right there. They're making up the route and it's a way higher carbon expenditure as opposed to USPS, which is going by your house every day, regardless.

[00:07:36] Lindsay McCormick: So kind of what our packages do, they hitch a ride with USPS. It takes longer. So there's a lot of education that we have to do to explain to our customer why we've made this choice and, you know, things like that. And then we pay to offset the carbon that we can't avoid. Right. So then we also are paying to offset our carbon through carbonfund.org.

[00:07:53] Lindsay McCormick: There's other things that we've done where, you know, one of the things that was really important to me was to be able to have paper tape. And this was back in [00:08:00] 2018, where that was actually really hard to find. And so it was, it was getting to the point of working with the our 3PL saying like, you know, we want to give you business, but you have to commit to using paper tape for our products.

[00:08:12] Lindsay McCormick: And so finally we found one that said, okay, fine. We'll we'll have this one paper tape portal for just your brand. And it ended up being so successful to them cause so many other smaller brands wanted to be able to offer that as well that they put paper tape at all of their portals to ship. And so it was one of those things that by taking the time on the front end to really stick to our guns and say like, this is what we want to do and this is why um, you know, being able to work with partners that finally, you know, agreed. And then them seeing success and being able to work with new brands as well, has really helped, you know, kind of push the whole, whole sustainability factor forward. Both like, you know, in front of, to our customers and behind the scenes where they're not, you know, where they don't see.

[00:08:55] Jason Wong: I love that you're setting that trend, you know, saying that it's my way [00:09:00] or no way.

[00:09:00] Jason Wong: And it ended up being the better way. You know, like some of these like mission driven brands, like clean beauty or vegan beauty, or, you know, uh, eco-conscious brands um, there's a lot of education that's required to do it. Um, it's not saying, Hey, we're sustainable and people just know what it is. Um, I want to talk to you a little bit more about like, in the early days, when you first built bite some of the challenges that you had in telling people who you are telling your story and really shaping their approach to buying from you and say, okay, this is something that I'm buying that will make a difference. What are some things that you have done?

[00:09:38] Lindsay McCormick: Yeah. Education is so important because when you're a sustainable brand, a clean beauty brand, whatever you are, you have to pay a premium for that right? Every single one. Like, if it was cheaper, everyone would be doing it. So like, obviously you're paying more to do that. So because you have a higher price product, you are going to have to definitely educate your customer as to why you are where [00:10:00] you are. And so, you know, what we do is it's, I mean, there's kind of like a variety of things that we do.

[00:10:06] Lindsay McCormick: One is we have really long blog posts on exactly why the choices we've made and, and with links to sources and, you know, um, and basically facts and data. So we can, our customers who are interested in that can read it through. And so what happens is that not many people read these blog posts. Honestly, they just sit in the back of our website, but the customers who do, end up being huge advocates, and they're the ones that then tell their friends to buy and their friend's friends to buy. And those are really the hub of, you know, the word of mouth. And so we really, um, we, we tailor our communication to them when it comes to the blog.

[00:10:45] Lindsay McCormick: Then when you're looking at something like Instagram, right, or, or Tik Tok, people don't want long, 10 page blog posts. It needs to be digestible. It needs to be very, um, to the point. So we are able to take this information that's really like robust [00:11:00] that's in our blog and then break it down into multiple different Instagram posts to hopefully, you know, get the message out that way.

[00:11:06] Lindsay McCormick: And so I think what it is, it's understanding, you know, how do you um, you know, explaining the choices that you make. Transparency is so important, especially when you're a mission-driven brand and then figuring out a way to break that down to every vertical where you're speaking to your customer. So your blog is different.

[00:11:22] Lindsay McCormick: It's saying something similar, but in a different way to your Instagram, to your Tik Tok to Twitter and kind of just making them all, um, really tailored to the customer who is preferring that vertical of communication, if that make sense or platform...

[00:11:37] Jason Wong: What you said about the blog is honestly, so, so important because we launched like six, seven blogs a month and truthfully, maybe a few hundred people will read it.

[00:11:48] Jason Wong: But if the few hundred people that do read it, if they do read it through, they become so much deeper, deeply connected with your brand. They're going to be like, Hey, I'm going to send this article to my friend who is also very [00:12:00] eco-conscious. Right. And, and that's a, that's a part of blog writing and content marketing that people don't talk about that.

[00:12:06] Jason Wong: Yeah. It's not as scalable as, paid media but for the people that goes through the content marketing channels, they become much bigger customers, longer customers. And they're just huge brand advocates. I love that you brought that up. Um, cause not many people talk about it. Everyone's talking about paid ads.

[00:12:22] Lindsay McCormick: No, I think it's something that's so overlooked and it's, you know, for like you and me, you're doing all the research anyway, right. When it comes to writing these blog posts, it's like, this was part of our product development process, like everything from we're you know, switching over to this ingredient or that it's all part of our, so it's really taking the time to gather your thoughts, putting it in like a readable digestible way and then putting it out there, you know? So it's like you're already doing the work just as the business owner, the founder, the CEO. So it's, it's just putting it out there. So your customers can be part of the journey with you.

[00:12:52] Jason Wong: I love that. I have another question for you, and this is something that I'm also personally struggling. We're obviously in a space [00:13:00] where there's mass produced products that are in most people's eyes equivalent, people will go to Walmart and pick up a tube of toothpaste. And they're like, why would I pay this amount of dollars for a jar versus a tube. People look at us and be like, I can go to CVS and pick a $3 pair of lashes.

[00:13:17] Jason Wong: Why would I pay $14 for yours. What are some of the things that you have done beyond education to really show people that this is worth getting over it?

[00:13:25] Lindsay McCormick: You know, I think it's, I don't necessarily think we try to do that. Like, I think that we, what we do as a really small business is understand who our customer is.

[00:13:34] Lindsay McCormick: Right. And so for us, we will, you know, we're a premium product, we're a higher, you know, we use premium ingredients: glass, you know, glass packaging, like we're expensive , for our category. And so if someone is getting a $3, uh, toothpaste at crest, at like CVS, like for us, it that's not necessarily our customer, you know, and if we try to go for them, [00:14:00] then they ...

[00:14:00] Lindsay McCormick: it's so important kind of as like a small bootstrap company that we know our customer through and through and through, and like our customer, maybe they, you know, maybe they were using like Tom's or Schmitz or, you know, or a Native, and like maybe they were using the, a, like, um, you know, a more holistic brand at their local health food store.

[00:14:21] Lindsay McCormick: Um, so understanding that those are our customers where they're already understanding that, um, high quality products come at, uh, an upcharge. If it, if it didn't, then everything will be high quality and let you know so you know, it, you do have to pay for quality. And I think that by understanding who our customers are, we're able to more efficiently target them, which is just so important now, you know?

[00:14:44] Lindsay McCormick: Um, so I think it's not really trying to boil the ocean, but really understanding who is our, who is our customer and how do

[00:14:51] Lindsay McCormick: we speak to them?

[00:14:52] Jason Wong: Yeah. We ran into that same problem and have the same realization naturally is that we're not going to go after people who are buying [00:15:00] these lower priced items because, um, they, they can't buy anything else.

[00:15:05] Jason Wong: It's like, we're going out there to people who buy it because they haven't found a better version of it that they're willing to pay. We're not going out to people who are buying it out of necessity. We're just going after people who are looking for it and they have appreciate the premium quality of things in other categories, too.

[00:15:20] Jason Wong: Um, you know, taking myself up for an example, um, I used to buy, um, underwear, like 20 pack fruit of the loom from Walmart as a kid growing up. And I thought that was all I'm gonna do. And then I bought like these $30 pair of underwear. I'm like, wow. They are really, really good. And then like you start buying it and you start appreciating, but there's going to be a subset of people who just don't care for that.

[00:15:44] Jason Wong: And that's okay. You can't, you can grab them. You literally just can't.

[00:15:48] Lindsay McCormick: And that's a thing, and there's nothing obviously wrong with being on a budget. There's nothing wrong with getting the $3 toothpaste. Like there's that is absolutely like I've been there. We've all, you know, we've all been at that point and there's nothing wrong with that.[00:16:00]

[00:16:00] Lindsay McCormick: It's just our customer is the one who is like, you know what I'm going to, I want to prioritize these certain things in my life, sustainability, clean ingredients, you know, supporting small businesses and I'm willing to, you know, they're not even necessarily like rich or anything, they want to make those choices and they're willing to make that, um, that room in their budget to make that work.

[00:16:22] Lindsay McCormick: And so I think, you know, we all have different ways that we want to spend money and, you know, support businesses and, you know, buy things. And so I think for us, it's just understanding, like, these are the characteristics of someone who is a good customer for us. And so this is who we're going to go for.

[00:16:37] Jason Wong: The prioritization point that you just made is actually a really good point because it's true. Like it's not that people don't want to buy. It's just, they have different priorities for me. I'm fine with eating $5 bento boxes or go on to like Chipotle and grab like a $9 bowl. I don't really care to go to Nobu.

[00:16:56] Jason Wong: I don't really care to go fine dining. I'm perfectly fine with, but I [00:17:00] will need like a good pair of shoes. I will, I will splurge on like a hundred dollars fifty shoes. Uh, rather than like a $60 pair of shoes, like different people have different priorities and they will allow their budget to go for it. I never really thought of it that way.

[00:17:12] Jason Wong: So you bringing it up, I was like, okay. That's like a different way for me to think about how to get my customers now.

[00:17:18] Lindsay McCormick: Exactly. Yeah. So there's all, there's so many different. It's really interesting when you start kind of thinking of like the psychology of why people make the choices that they make and why they support the brands they support.

[00:17:29] Lindsay McCormick: And I think that, you know, especially when you're mission-driven, it's, um, it's really important to be able to align and understand, you know, that not everybody just because we're a premium product it doesn't mean that all of our, you know, uh, customers are just these, like high-income, you know, like, uh, single people living on their own, you know, with a bunch of disposable income.

[00:17:50] Lindsay McCormick: No, you know, a lot of them are actually making the choice to, you know, okay. So I'm gonna eat, I'm gonna eat in more so I can afford high [00:18:00] quality skincare products. I can use afford high quality oral care products that are sustainable. And so it really is understanding kind of the, all different kinds of facets of, of your customer and how they could end up, uh, supporting your brand.

[00:18:13] Jason Wong: I love that. That's a point that I want to like expand into later on. I'll probably do like a whole thread on you just because of how much I love that point. That's, that's a realization I feel like a lot of brand owners don't make because, you know, for most time you see people not buy from you, you're like, why would you not buy from you?

[00:18:29] Jason Wong: Of course, like my stuff is better. Well, sometimes it's just not within their priorities. Some people are perfectly happy with $6 mascara. They don't need to spend $40 on it. And that's totally okay. It's nothing on them. It's just not within their priorities. I love that. That's, that's a point that I want to dig in deeper.

[00:18:44] Jason Wong: Uh, the last question I have for you before we wrap up is what is that one thing that really changed the trajectory of your business? Was it a news article? Was it like something clicked in your paid ads? Was it wholesale deals? What was that one thing that clicked?

[00:18:58] Lindsay McCormick: So for us,

[00:18:59] Lindsay McCormick: it was [00:19:00] hands down um, you know, our, our business was launched from a viral video on Facebook.

[00:19:05] Lindsay McCormick: So I had done $6,000 in sales before this video had gone viral. Within the first few hours, it went up, it was $200,000 in sales and that's really what just launched the company. Yeah. And it's been the reason that we've been able to be bootstrapped. It's been the reason we've been able to kind of just build on top of that.

[00:19:22] Lindsay McCormick: Um, luckily I had my Facebook pixel set up when that happened, you know, and we were able to kind of just grow so, um, that was definitely the, the trigger, uh, for the whole business. And I would say, you know, that was back in 2018, when Facebook video was king, you know, king or queen, which is however you want to say it, but it was like, it was the one.

[00:19:42] Lindsay McCormick: And I think now, you know, when I look at the opportunity that's out there for video viral video and, you know, Jason, your backgrounds in virality as well. You know, I just think there's so much opportunity in Tik Tok and there's so much opportunity in social in general that that's, you know, that's kind of the way our business had [00:20:00] launched. And that was the game changing moment for

[00:20:01] Lindsay McCormick: us.

[00:20:02] Jason Wong: Yeah. And you're right about like visualizing, like showing people what a billion, two toothpaste tubes looks like, or what, you know, six Empire State Buildings look like. It's very, very important for people to understand exactly what it is. Cause you know, the challenge of DTC is that people don't feel your product.

[00:20:17] Jason Wong: They don't see it. And it's kind of hard to communicate what you are and who you are without good videos to show for it. And you're totally right on Tik Tok. Tik Tok's algorithm is in my opinion, unparalleled. I've been in social for eight, nine years now. There's no other platform on earth that will allow you to have thousands of views when you have zero followers. Like I started Tik Tok account two weeks ago, a personal one, zero followers launched a video. I got 60,000 views. That is impossible on any other platform. And I've told brands to jump on it, like go out there and tell your story, right? Show your mission, tell people why they should, why should they should have this in their life and, and watch it grow.[00:21:00]

[00:21:00] Jason Wong: And it's a consistency thing. It's a thing about showing behind the scenes for your brand. But, you know, even with one channel collapsed, like video on Facebook was one thing, but it will always change because people don't stop going on their phone. They just changed the medium in which they consume. That's really it, you have to adapt or else we do fall behind, right?

[00:21:20] Lindsay McCormick: Yeah, exactly. Adapt or die. You know, you have to just, you have to constantly be going and constantly be, um, looking for what's next. And I think that that's something as a smaller brand, you know, there's a lot of disadvantages that we have. Right. We don't maybe don't have the the unlimited capital and the unlimited access to these things that these other big brands, but we are nimble and we can, you know, jump on these types of opportunities and really learn them really fast and, and figure out how to test and iterate.

[00:21:46] Lindsay McCormick: And I think that that's something that, you know, we take very seriously at bite. Uh, we see as a huge advantage and I think any kind of small brand, um, to just constantly just, you know, instead of being like, oh, another new platform that I have to figure out it's. [00:22:00] Whoa, there's a new platform. Let's figure this out, you know, and kind of get on there before the big guys do and, uh, and really kind of figure out how to, how to work it.

[00:22:08] Lindsay McCormick: So

[00:22:08] Jason Wong: Yeah, at the end of the day, it really comes down to the attention economy. Like people's eyeballs, it's very valuable. That's why platforms pay or charge so much for CPM, like for like the way that you have to think about it as a marketer in my opinion, is that channels don't die with the business. Or business don't die with the channel. It's that business die when they are stuck on one channel because people, like the amount of people that watch content online actually grows over time, but they move like this. Like they'll grow and they'll shift in phases. So you had, you know, blog posts and, and you have long form videos on YouTube and then you have Facebook videos and then you see them getting shorter content.

[00:22:46] Jason Wong: But the people that are watching them actually are growing because that's naturally how our population has been growing. The adaptation of technology and the adaptation of people's consuming content. But you have to follow where the eyeballs are. You can't just get stuck on one [00:23:00] platform. Um, and I've seen so many businesses fail because they were so dependent on Facebook without exploring all these new channels, Pinterest, Snapchat, you know, um, you know, YouTube ads and they just let their business die with it because they just accepted defeat. You can't do that.

[00:23:15] Lindsay McCormick: Yep. 100%. I totally agree. I think it's um, and honestly, I think, you know, it's diversity is necessary for a healthy business. You know what I'm saying? Like none of us should be only on one thing. And then, you know, and it, I think that, you know, especially with kind of what's happening with iOS 14 and all the changes. I think that we're all just going to have way stronger businesses after the ones who figure it out and really make it through. This are going to have a way stronger business because you don't have 90% of your, you know, paid ads going through one platform. You know, everyone's, everyone's on everything else.

[00:23:47] Lindsay McCormick: You know, for us, it's like testing podcasts is testing, connected TV, it's testing, you know, Pinterest, uh, YouTube, you know, everything kind of really gathered that data. Synthesize it. Figuring it out, but I think your point of following the [00:24:00] eyeballs is like, is just exactly, exactly what point.

[00:24:04] Jason Wong: Thank you.

[00:24:04] Jason Wong: Thank you. And one last thing, and to look back at your old self, when you first started that business, when you first make that $6,000, uh, andwhat would be the one advice that you know, now that you would tell your old self that would have changed the trajectory. Like what if maybe you grow a lot faster, a lot more. What's that one thing?

[00:24:22] Lindsay McCormick: Oh, that's a good question. Um, you know, I think something that we had to learn, which is actually really counterintuitive to other businesses, probably especially venture backed is I think there is such a thing as too scrappy. And I think, you know, at the very beginning, especially because we were like really learning and trying to, we just kind of were on this like rocket ship, but we also didn't know what was going to happen.

[00:24:48] Lindsay McCormick: We had no historical data, you know, it was building these financial models was incredibly complicated because we had no, no historical data. Right. So I think that we were very, very lean. Um, to the point [00:25:00] where I would have said, you know, probably like expand out a little bit more in terms of team, you know, like let's not like get completely burnt out and think you have to do it all yourself, you know, or like with, you know, like the smallest possible team you possibly can.

[00:25:16] Lindsay McCormick: Um, for, for us, I would say back then it would have been like, and I don't know if it would've exponentially grown the business or anything like that. But I think that like my mental health would have been better. You know what I'm saying, I would have been able to sleep, you know,

[00:25:30] Lindsay McCormick: so, yeah.

[00:25:32] Jason Wong: Oh, sorry. People don't talk about burnouts as founders and I that's a whole different episode we can circle back on, but I think hiring early on . Be scrappy with hiring too that that's okay. Like hiring a VA, if you need to be on a budget, hire a freelancer or an agency and then a full-time or part-time employee that's okay. I did the same thing. That's actually the same advice I would've gave myself when I got asked that question.

[00:25:54] Jason Wong: That's why I asked everyone else I've talked to you now is because when you hire people, you're able to remove [00:26:00] yourself from the day-to-day stuff and you start building out the roles. The way that I help people visualize this whole thing is when you're a founder working on your business, you're building the road inch by inch.

[00:26:10] Jason Wong: When you're able to take a step back, you're able to build feet by feet. When you're able to take two steps back, you're able to build a bridge and that ultimately helps you figure out how to, how do you grow faster? How do you drive faster? Is there a shortcut to do certain things, but you cannot do any of those things if you're always in a day to day customer support, operation, supply chain. Like these are the things that follow a lot of frameworks that you could train someone else to do. Marketing may be a little bit harder to train, but there are things that you can build a framework or an SOP. Hire that out. You do not need to be answering emails for four or five hours a day.

[00:26:44] Jason Wong: You know, like there's some things that you could just remove yourself from.

[00:26:48] Lindsay McCormick: I love that. I love that. And I think it's, yeah, the inch by inch that whole visually talking about being able to hit a point home with a visualization, I think with the road is exactly it. And I, that would have been.[00:27:00]

[00:27:02] Jason Wong: I, I have trouble understanding concepts. So for me, I like to visualize it and that's always been like that one thing that I'm able to communicate to all the other founders and like, look, I know you're working right now. I know you love what you do but if you don't take a step back, you will burn out.

[00:27:16] Lindsay McCormick: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:27:18] Jason Wong: And Lindsay we're at time now. So let us know where we can find you or we can find bite and hopefully we can sell a couple toothpastes for you.

[00:27:27] Lindsay McCormick: Love that. Love it. So we are trybite.com. Uh, and I guess a little bit about our product we have a, it's like a toothpaste tablet and it's in a refillable glass jar.

[00:27:37] Lindsay McCormick: Uh, we make plastic free personal care across the board and, uh, yeah. trybite.com, bite on Instagram @bitetoothpase on Twitter. And, uh, my, uh, Instagram is@heylindsaymc so if you ever want to see anything, I'm going to end my, I believe my Tik Tok's the same, and I post things about our sustainability on both.

[00:27:55] Lindsay McCormick: Yeah.

[00:27:58] Jason Wong: Thank you. Thank you. We'll see you around [00:28:00] soon. Hopefully we can talk about all those topics that we want to jam out about next time. Right.

[00:28:04] Lindsay McCormick: And so good to see you again, Jason. Thank you.

[00:28:08] Jason Wong: You just heard an episode of the building blocks podcast. If you liked what you heard, subscribe below to keep hearing conversations that I have with brilliant marketers, founders and innovators on how they built their best day.

[00:28:18] Jason Wong: Now, if you want to learn how you can turn your best ideas and build something massive out of it. Visit my website bbclass.co or follow my Twitter @eggroll.

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