00:00:00] JT Barnett: The number one mistake that I see brands doing on TikTok is jumping on the platform and thinking that they need to use trends to build their audience. 

[00:00:08] Jason Wong: Give me your hot take. On anything 

[00:00:12] JT Barnett: hot take. Okay. I think that content creators being hired by companies as within their first 10 hires full time will be something that I think all of the new startups will realize is a priority.

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[00:01:27] Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Building Blocks podcast. Today I'm joined by JT Barnett. Welcome. 

[00:01:34] JT Barnett: What up my man. Thank you for having me. 

[00:01:37] Jason Wong: I'm jealous that you have a TikTok hat.

[00:01:38] They, they don't like me enough to send me merch. 

[00:01:41] JT Barnett: I, I actually don't even know how I got this. I don't think it was from maybe it was, but yeah, we'll get you one. 

[00:01:47] Jason Wong: Thank you. Thank you. I've seen your face around TikTok so often I've seen your face back when you started Honey House. Because one of my colleagues, Aaron was in the Honey House , and, you know, I [00:02:00] wanna dive a little bit more about, you know, the content house.

[00:02:02] I wanna dive a little bit about your strategy to TikTok. You're obviously now the TikTok guy. Um, and you know, I wanna talk a little more about like building a brand there on TikTok. So, um, without further ado, we'll like to get into it. Um, So JT, I know that you've been around in this space for a while, but you used to be a pro hockey player.

[00:02:22] Right? Am I correct? 

[00:02:24] JT Barnett: That is correct. I played five years pro hockey and then retired in 2017.

[00:02:29] Jason Wong: Just because you wanted to move on to something new? 

[00:02:31] JT Barnett: I was over it. I was playing in the minor leagues. And for me it was like, am I enjoying this? If I'm not enjoying this, am I making enough money to like, keep grinding it out?

[00:02:41] And then when that was, when both of those weren't the case, I was just kind of like, what am I doing this for? It's not a passion thing for me anymore. And I, my last two years I played in Europe. I played in Russia. And then in France, And so at that point, I was like, I'm across the world from everybody.

[00:02:56] And I'm not having that much fun, not making a ton of money. So it was just like, [00:03:00] what am I doing this for still? And so I decided I was done. 

[00:03:03] Jason Wong: Dude, that's sick. I have a friend, uh, Nick Shackleford. I'm not sure if you know him. Um, but he... 

[00:03:08] JT Barnett: Very familiar with who he is. 

[00:03:09] Jason Wong: Oh yeah. Everyone loves Nick. Um, but he used to be a pro soccer player.

[00:03:14] Uh, I think for the LA galaxies, if I, if I'm correct, he was a goalie there and now he's one of the largest media buyers. And so that's, it's cool to see, like, you know, you guys taken from an athlete path, realizing that there's bigger things you wanna do and now getting into business and, you know, I've always wondered, like, are, are there lessons that you've taken from when you're athlete that you apply now into the world business there?

[00:03:38] JT Barnett: So many. The, the amount of lessons that I have learned from sports that have directly translate to business is insane. Think about the dedication that it takes to become a pro athlete with just the amount of reps that you're putting in, in practice, the amount that you need to like train for your craft.

[00:03:57] I, I look at the same way with my business. [00:04:00] Like, I feel like my work that I'm doing on something, even as like a computer or when I'm filming content, I look at it the same way of like, this is a repetition that I'm putting in to get better at, to better my craft so that when people see it, that's like the game for me in the same way as like a sporting arena.

[00:04:16] So there is tons of translations from sports to business. 

[00:04:20] I love that. 

[00:04:21] Jason Wong: And you, you know, you've been on TikTok for a few years now. Um, definitely made a name for your stuff. Was that the, the same theme that you have when you first started? What, what were the pivots? If there was any?

[00:04:32] JT Barnett: I started on TikTok by just doing random things on my camera role.

[00:04:37] Like when you could get a million views, just like posting a video of like a candle or something like that. So I was just enjoying the fact of that TikTok had just one crazy reach, but also was fun to be on. Then I started taking it a little bit more serious and doing more couples content. Uh, particularly during the pandemic, I started filming a lot of videos, honestly, like fucking around with my [00:05:00] girlfriend, who's now my fiance and like doing like pranks and like making fun of her in comedy kind of sketches, uh, skits and, and sketches. And then from there I started the TikTok house called Honey House. So my content pivoted from couple's account to an actual TikTok house account in the, behind the scenes of it.

[00:05:20] And that was really like what built me, the notoriety when Honey House started working, brands started hitting me up. And what I noticed from Honey House was I really love the strategy behind content. I love talking about the strategy and I love building strategy for companies. And so when I started getting hit up from companies to teach them strategy, that for me was like, this is something that I'm really gonna enjoy and I'm gonna build a business around.

[00:05:46] And so then my, my content turned into business content. 

[00:05:49] Jason Wong: I love that. And, uh, one of the things that people always like warn others about is when you make an account, you pick your niche and you double down on it [00:06:00] and you've pivoted a little bit along the way. Were there definitely challenges when you changed into a new theme or was it smooth sailing? 

[00:06:07] JT Barnett: Challenges? I first, I first tried to pivot my, I tried to transition my couple's account into a business account for about a month and I was very transparently doing it. I would make a video that'd be like day two of me trying to turn my couples account into a business account. I want to be on business talk. Can you guys get me over there, like send this to your friends in the business world so that the algorithm thinks that I'm a business account.

[00:06:32] And I tried that for about a month and it didn't work. Uh, it was really hard to, because I think that one of the things that TikTok does so well is it's so smart with who you are and your interactions, that it's hard to pivot your account after a while. And so for me, then I was like, after doing this for a month, I was like, shit, I'm not getting traction with this.

[00:06:51] Why don't I just start something new and go just as hard in the new thing. And then when I went hard in the new thing, that was when it started to click. 

[00:06:58] Jason Wong: So it, it is true that you [00:07:00] can't really get out of your bucket once you're in the bucket.

[00:07:02] JT Barnett: I don't know if you, like, I think if I probably spent a year doing it, maybe I could, but I was like, I just don't, I don't feel like it's needed.

[00:07:09] I, and I feel like at the same time you can grow quickly, if you execute on TikTok, particularly when I, this is like a year and a half ago. Now, when I started that account, you could still grow pretty easily. So it was like, if I just go hard for three months, I can build something new rather than it might take me a year to pivot this.

[00:07:28] It was better for me to start something new. 

[00:07:29] Jason Wong: Yeah. And I mean, a year from now who knows what the algorithm is favoring like time is of the essence on TikTok there's this famous video that everyone shares from Gary Vee it's like, oh, you have 18 months left until like, this is gone. And, and you know, like, I don't know if that's actually 18 months, but it's true. Like, things like that don't last forever. We've seen that with Instagram back in the day, when they first launched carousels. When you, when you post carousels with pictures, it works really well and they start favoring videos and now they're favoring reels, but like these things don't last forever.

[00:07:59] JT Barnett: 100% 

[00:07:59] Jason Wong: [00:08:00] TikTok will be around the same too. And I'm quite curious to hear about like, you know, your interaction with brands because you, you definitely started at a time when brands didn't really take TikTok seriously. Like, they're like, oh, it's just a bunch of kids dancing. We're not gonna put budget behind it.

[00:08:16] And now they're begging people to make TikToks for them. Is that what you've been seeing? 

[00:08:20] JT Barnett: It's still it's, it's both. It's both still. So we have companies that come to us that are like, we are obsessed with TikTok. We just don't know how to do it. Can you teach us? Then I have companies that are like, all of our friends are telling us TikTok.

[00:08:32] We still don't think it's a, we don't believe it yet. We still don't think it's the thing, but we're getting told so much that we need to start considering it. And so I obviously think that it is super, super, super impactful. I think it's the most impactful place for brands right now in the world, particularly organically.

[00:08:49] But I still think that there's plenty of time before the mass majority of companies recognize that. Like, dude, I still know people that are trying to get on Instagram today as a company that are starting [00:09:00] Instagram accounts today being like, we need to be on Instagram. So if you think about that, yeah. If you think about that, you're.

[00:09:07] We got some time before everybody, before TikTok has really like reached mass adoption. And, uh, and so for me, I'm like any company that comes to me, that's like even thinking about it, I'm like, great. You're here at the perfect time. 

[00:09:18] Jason Wong: You're still early. You're you're so early. Uh, you know, it's funny. I wanna like reference back to crypto.

[00:09:24] It's probably the worst time to do that, but like, you know, back in the day, people were like, oh, it's too late to get into Bitcoin. And then it was like $300 and then it went up to $1000 and they're like, oh, it's too late. Goes up to $4000 and you know, again, very bad times to be talking about crypto right now, but it it's true.

[00:09:40] Like a lot of times we live in this bubble and this perception of like, oh, it's too late to do something. But in fact we're actually really early. Like we're still early on internet. It's only been, 

[00:09:49] JT Barnett: Dude I agree. 

[00:09:49] Jason Wong: You know?

[00:09:50] JT Barnett: Uh, there's, there's a, there's a thing called the, the, the law of the law of theory of diffusion of innovation, which is like, [00:10:00] It shows when people typically jump into ideas and like where you're at.

[00:10:05] And there's a, there's a particular point where like, it goes from being early adoption to being mass adoption. And then it starts to like, that's where Facebook goes from. Or Instagram goes from young people to like our parents getting on it and like inviting their other friends. Right. I think we still have at least a couple years before we reach that point on TikTok.

[00:10:26] And so for me, I'm like, anytime that is before that is still so fucking early. And we're still, we're still like in that, in that place right now where it's like, yeah, people like you and I, we feel like we've been on it forever, but, um, There is so many of my friends right now that are still hitting me up that are like, yo, should I be on TikTok for X, Y, and Z?

[00:10:44] And I'm like a hundred percent. Yes. And then they're like, it's not too late. And I'm like, no, start it today. Like get on there. And there's still so much room for, for growth and for, um, for people to get on. 

[00:10:55] Jason Wong: I love that. And you know, I want shift a little bit more into the brand side of stuff. [00:11:00] You've definitely seen a lot of brands you've worked with tons of brands on TikTok.

[00:11:04] Is there a common misconception that brands have when they come to you? That you just see it so often, or is there like a mistake that you see a lot of brands make that you try to correct them after?

[00:11:14] JT Barnett: The number one mistake that I see brands doing on TikTok is jumping on the platform and thinking that they need to use trends to build their audience.

[00:11:23] Because if you think about it, that is how TikTok got popular, because they had trends. That popular creators would do. And before it would trends were mainly dances, but now they've moved into more like actions or scenes or whatever. But if you look at the growth of TikTok was because they would give you ideas of trends and then they would give you the tools to execute on those ideas with like the features and editing things on the TikTok platform.

[00:11:50] So everybody that came onto the platform would do trends and that's how they would think they would grow. But what's wrong with that is brands come on the platform and think that if we just [00:12:00] do this trend holding our product, we will go viral and we will sell out and people will follow us. The issue with that is nobody that sees a trend account on their for you page is like, I wanna follow this. They're like, oh, this is now a trend with a product in it that I don't care about. This is like double, I don't care about this. And so what, what I think every company needs to be doing is coming up with their own original series that is like an episodic piece part one part three, part five.

[00:12:31] You don't need to say that, but like something that you're doing recurring that the audience could come back to and be like, that is the company that does that. This is the people that talk about this. This is the people that show us this and have it be unique to your brand and then figure out how to put your product in it organically.

[00:12:50] And that's really how you build an audience. So the mistake that they're making right now is just doing trends. 

[00:12:55] Jason Wong: I agree with that completely because so many brands also come to me. I [00:13:00] don't know why, cuz I'm not TikTok expert um, but they're like, oh, we're using trending sounds and we're using these dances and it's not working.

[00:13:07] I'm like, yeah, because a billion other brands are doing the same exact thing that you're doing. Um, one of the companies within my portfolio is this company called Nectar Hard Seltzer. 

[00:13:15] JT Barnett: Love 'em. 

[00:13:17] Jason Wong: You know, we were doing well on TikTok for a good period of time until we're like, Hey, we actually need a pivot and we create something new.

[00:13:23] So we create the Under the Influence podcast show. Yep. And in four months, that account grew to a quarter million followers while the main account has about 50-60 thousand followers. And it was because we were consistent. We had a theme and we brought on these like cool people to do podcasts on. We, we built this podcast in the back room of, uh, a team member's house.

[00:13:44] Like it was a consistent theme. It was really funny stories, really funny clips. And people were like, oh, you guys are the alcohol brand that's associated. The show and it's true. Like, people don't wanna see trends anymore. That's, you know, a year and two ago, uh, [00:14:00] if you really wanna make it, like you said, you have to set your own path as the brand who is always making fun of their, their own products or the brand who's showing you the behind the scene of the workplace.

[00:14:10] Or like, you know, I saw the skincare brand where most of the product was just like, most of the video was just, um, them having fun in their office, kind of like a Duolingo type of style. They don't talk about the product, but they are in the video so much that people start associating the brand and they having that brand top of mind when they see these videos.

[00:14:28] And it's so true, that's really what's working. 

[00:14:31] JT Barnett: I completely agree. I think, um, if you look at the content that's really working right now, it's storytelling. It has been storytelling as well for, for, since the platform's been around. But it's been storytelling additionally with little tips and little other things like that now, because so many people are doing the tips and stuff, that's not working as much.

[00:14:52] So what people should lean on right now is storytelling, which is why I think podcast clips do so well on the platform. Cuz [00:15:00] typically you're talking about something that has some sort of an arc to it. Same with Nectar with you guys doing those storytelling ones. Those are great. Like the, how my business almost failed before starting or here's how we lost all of our product before launching.

[00:15:13] That kind of like an arc, an emotional arc and a video is what works historically in any type of media. And so that is really what we're seeing working on TikTok right now. And the brands that do that and lean into it are the ones that will succeed. 

[00:15:29] Jason Wong: Absolutely. And you know, the way that I explain to people, when I talk about TikTok, Talk's kind of like the backstage pass that you give to your customers that you don't give anywhere else, not on your website, not on Instagram, not anywhere else.

[00:15:43] And so this is a place where you can really get close and personal to it. Like when they're backstage, when they're four feet away from you. They're very much invested in what you do. They, because they get to see behind a scene and they're like, okay, that's how they make their product. Here's how they almost fail.

[00:15:57] If I put money into this business, this is what I'm [00:16:00] supporting. And you just cannot story. Tell like that on any other platform, at least to the same effectiveness as TikTok. 

[00:16:05] JT Barnett: I love that analogy. That's great. It's so true. Okay. yeah, I'm gonna take that from you and I will quote you. Um, it's a great analogy because.

[00:16:15] In the actual like foundation of the platform, you can tell that they prioritize the more like raw unfiltered unproduced content and that close, like close knit relationship is what every brand is trying to get to on every platform. But the problem has been the other platforms haven't prioritized that.

[00:16:35] So if you posted yourself in a w. With shit everywhere and it not looking nice on Instagram seven years ago, people would be like, I don't like this brand. They don't have their shit figured out now on TikTok, you post that stuff. And people are like, I love that this brand has to grind. And I care about that more cuz I see the finished product and now I know where that started.

[00:16:56] That hasn't been around for a while. And that's something that companies should [00:17:00] totally take advantage of. 

[00:17:01] Jason Wong: Yeah. And, and this really evens the playing field for everyone cuz you know, I come from a DTC brand. I know how expensive photo shoots are. Like our last one we spent $30,000 for, I think 40 pictures and five videos, $30,000 in one day. That's that's a lot, like not a lot of companies can afford that shit. Even we cannot afford that. Like just freely. We're not balling out of control, but like TikTok allow a lot of small brands to be like, here I have a phone with a camera and an app. I can make content that can generate 10- 20 million impressions.

[00:17:32] That was never possible on any other platform in any other time before and consumer the, the behavior also shift too at at least what I noticed that people are tired of the polished shit that you see on Instagram. No one cares about their feed anymore. They're doing photo dumps. They're doing, you know, gigantic dumps.

[00:17:49] They're putting memes between their, their pictures because. Hey, you know what? We're tired, we're tired of polishing shit. We're, we're tired trying to keep this image and, and we just wanna [00:18:00] release. And we're, we're seeing that behavior really trickle down into the brand side as well. And I love that because it means that anyone with a brand and a phone can create really cool content that can spread to so many more people at a fraction of budget that these bigger companies think that they have to use. 

[00:18:16] JT Barnett: Dude, I completely like, I feel that 100% it brings, the TikTok coming in and creating this prioritization of lower production and authenticity. Not only is it really good because it allows a whole new wave of content creators to come into the ecosystem because they don't have to have crazy cameras and studios and that kind of shit, but it also is so good for every company because the product, the content is easier to make.

[00:18:42] And it also allows you to not stress about how perfect everything looks like you handing the camera over to your social media manager and being like, yo, just tell them what happened today versus being needing to be like, make sure everything's in order and [00:19:00] like put all those boxes together and pick this up and da, da, da, it makes it easier on the people that are actually filming and producing the content.

[00:19:07] So I think it's a net win for everybody. And I think the challenge is. We've just lived with this like filtered lifestyle for 10 years on Instagram that I think there's a little bit of learning how to do it different that the companies need to adopt, but the ones that do will really see like the return and the benefits of it.

[00:19:28] Jason Wong: Absolutely. I, I want to go a little bit more about. Going viral. Um, you, you know, I, I don't know the TikTok algorithm, how it works, but there's a lot of factors like likes comments, watch time, rewatch, time shares and, and all that stuff. And they all kind of have like different. To the algorithm. Right. And I think shares is one of the highest one.

[00:19:50] What are some of the things that brands can do to make their videos more shareable? 

[00:19:53] JT Barnett: Um, I think one thing that people don't do enough of is encourage the audience to take action. I think [00:20:00] a lot of people do hard calls to action that are like at the very end of the video. And it's. Lincoln bio or like swipe up to see more or follow for more.

[00:20:10] And I think that that doesn't work as well as in the middle of a video being like, by the way, guys, if you're ever interested in this, I would love to help you. Or I, by the way, guys, we're looking for more people to do this with. So like please send this to all of your friends, like a little bit more of like a subtle integrated call to action.

[00:20:29] That's like one little hack that I think people could do. But I think the ethos of the content needs to be shareable. So you gotta look at the content that you're sharing with your friends. Usually it's something that's either like funny or emotional or educational, and that needs to be infused into the content that you're creating or else people aren't gonna share it.

[00:20:50] Jason Wong: Yeah. And I actually saw a video of yours where you edit it, like bookmark this in, in like the middle of the video. And I'm like, dude, that's brilliant. It's like, I saw it's right [00:21:00] in the middle of the screen. Like I, I actually wanna bookmark it. And, um, the other thing is I sometimes go on like Chinese TikTok, Douyin. And they do exactly what you did, um, in the middle of a cooking video. They're like, well guys, like if you guys like, like, and, and want more recipes, click the like, and, and subscribe button, and then they just keep cooking rather than like in the hard end. And I think like the hard end CTA. It's so worn out because everyone has been using it for the past seven years on Instagram that it's like, okay, I just finished a video.

[00:21:29] I there's nothing else for me to do. So I don't really wanna do anything else. Whereas that, that dopamine hit during the middle of the video. It's like, okay, I want more, okay. You want me to do something? Yeah, I guess I can do that. And I'll just keep watching your video. It's definitely a lot easier to convert and it makes a lot of sense.

[00:21:44] And it's funny cuz a lot of these things that we're now adapting in America, Uh, Asia has been doing it for a while. 

[00:21:52] JT Barnett: For sure.

[00:21:53] Jason Wong: You need to look outside the box. Um, a lot of innovation happened outside of the United States. You know, as much as we like to be [00:22:00] patriotic and proud of what we've built the world is so big, you need to look at what other countries are doing, cuz oftentimes they eventually seep into it.

[00:22:08] Like we had QR codes for payments 13-14 years ago in China, like I was using that already, um, you know, like voice memos or like, you know, in, in app shopping, like we had that seven, eight years ago and then TikTok had it. So like, if you're able to look outside the box on these social media platforms, you're actually able to stay ahead of a curve.

[00:22:27] Just like going outside the country, like go travel. 

[00:22:30] JT Barnett: Um, dude, I mean, like if you even just look at, uh, Douyin for what they're doing on the platform now to see like what could come from TikTok it for me, it always, when I look I'm inspired, cuz I'm like, wow, this is one of the reasons why I started talking about live shopping is.

[00:22:47] It's a, it's enormous on that platform. It's gonna be enormous. It could, it has a potential to be enormous. So in, in the us, so it's something you need to think about. And like, I always am trying to look at [00:23:00] new places and think outside of the box, because I completely agree. There is people that are doing things better.

[00:23:05] There is people that are innovating in different ways. And so I like to stay on top of that stuff. 

[00:23:11] Jason Wong: Absolutely. And one last question, before I let you go, give me your hot take. On anything.

[00:23:17] JT Barnett: Hot take. Okay. My hot take is that I think content creators are getting democratized right now. I think that influencers will always be relevant, but I think there will be a new wave of creators that will be in-house content creators.

[00:23:34] That will be a job similar to the wave of. Engineers being hired for new app development in the early two thousands in Silicon valley. I think that content creators being hired by companies as within their first 10 hires full time will be something that I think all of the new startups will realize is a priority.

[00:23:56] And so I think that that ushers in a whole new wave of creators that don't need to be influencer. [00:24:00] They need to make good content and be able to be accessible for the brands to find them. And that's it. They don't need to have a fucking following. They don't need to be massive. They just need to be able to make really good content contextually.

[00:24:13] And then they can do that as a, as a career that I see being a six figure job. And I see that happening soon. 

[00:24:19] Jason Wong: Oh, I'm totally with you on that. Um, I, I recently invested into this app called Bounty. I'm not sure if you've seen it. Um, but Bounty essentially gives you cash back um, if you're a customer. So lets just say you go to custom, uh, go to my website.

[00:24:34] You're about to buy something. You sign up on Bounty, you put in your phone number. When you receive your product, we send you a text and say, Hey, make a TikTok video for us and we'll pay you a CPM, $10 CPM, $8 CPM. And then the higher you go, the lower C. At scale. And what this really allows us to do is allow our customers who are already posting about us to earn the upsides of posting about us.

[00:24:56] You know, the DOE lashes hashtag has about 26 [00:25:00] million, uh, views on, on TikTok. Those are a lot of views that customers may for us, that they're not getting paid for. And so now we're really then democratizing the affiliate marketing side of being a creator to our customers who are making videos for us doing unboxing videos, and they can earn the upsides of it.

[00:25:16] And so smart. We can work with our customers and be like, Hey, we can use your video in our ads. Let me pay you. For usage rights for, for that video, you're you now get free product because the cash back payback for it already, and you get to get more exposure by being in our ad and getting paid for being in our ad.

[00:25:34] And so I completely agree with you and that's why that was my thesis in investing in that company is that we're going to see content creators, not just having a lot of followers, but being good creators. 

[00:25:45] JT Barnett: I completely agree, bro. That's a really cool company. I haven't heard about that before. Very smart, because it's so easy to get content from people that have your product.

[00:25:55] Uh, if you ask, if you ask them and it's so important too, because they [00:26:00] obviously are the people that are using it as the most authentic, so really smart, really smart idea. Um, I agree, completely agree. 

[00:26:07] Jason Wong: I love that. Well, JT, where can people find you if they wanna consume more of your content, if they haven't known you already 

[00:26:15] @JTBARNETT JT Barnett, um, on every platform.

[00:26:20] That's pretty much my same thing. And, uh, yeah, anybody that listens to this, I would love for you to say hello. Um, always looking to meet new people. Give any help that I can. I, well, you already gave so much free game, so can't imagine you healing much more, but I expect it. Um, well, JT, thank you so much for coming on a show and enjoy the rest of your day.

[00:26:37] JT Barnett: Thank you, bro. 

[00:26:39] Jason Wong: You just heard an episode of the Building Blocks podcast. If you like, what you heard subscribe below to keep hearing conversations that I have with brilliant marketers, founders, and innovators on how they built their best ideas. Now, if you wanna learn how you can turn your best ideas and build something massive out of it, visit my website, bbclass.co, or follow my Twitter at @eggroli[00:27:00] 

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