Emily Miethner

[00:00:00] Emily Miethner: We do try to bring in new people as travel cat experts at these events. You know, it's very easy to say, Oh, well, you know, these people always take good stuff, good pictures, good videos. We're always thinking like, we wanna bring new people in. We wanna get more people to have this experience.

[00:00:15] Jason Wong: Oftentimes we talk about successes.

[00:00:16] Jason Wong: I actually wanna talk about failures, like things that just completely knock you off your track.

[00:00:22] Emily Miethner: We had one Incredibly horrible experience with a 3PL. It was not one short mistake. It was a mistake that lasted over about a year and a half in terms of the length that we worked with that company.

[00:00:48] Jason Wong: Hello everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the Building Blocks podcast show. Today I'm joined by Emily Miethner, who is the founder and CEO of Travel Cat, a seven figure cat travel brand. [00:01:00] Um, and she is a great person for social media community building. You've seen her. You've seen her products online for sure, and I'm so lucky to finally have you on today.

[00:01:10] Emily Miethner: Awesome. Well, thanks for having me. A big fan of your podcast and all the content you put out there.

[00:01:14] Jason Wong: We’re quite new. We're still a little baby. Um, but it's really been helpful to bring awesome people like you to chat and, you know, just jam out on the things that we all do. Nice. I’ve wanted to talk to you for a little bit now.

[00:01:28] Jason Wong: I've also been following your journey. I see the stuff that you did with Octane AI. I see like the stuff that you did on community building, there's a bunch of YouTube videos, um, from you or about you on community building. Like it’s such a big, I wouldn't say a trend, but really the thing that a lot of brands are now focusing on community.

[00:01:47] Jason Wong: Can you tell me a little bit more about what community means to you and what are some of the things that you have done on your end to really build that for your company?

[00:01:55] Emily Miethner: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, community can be a really broad word. It means a lot of different things [00:02:00] depending on the industry and the brand.

[00:02:02] Emily Miethner: Uh, for myself, just based on my previous work and now, uh, how I'm applying that to Travel Cat uh, I would say very, very high level, it's making people feel included in something, you know, making them feel like they're able to be a part of a group, a world. Uh, and so, you know, how that actually plays out can fall into a lot of different, you know, sort of categories.

[00:02:24] Emily Miethner: But, uh, a big part of my background is in events both online and offline. So, you know, definitely when we started Travel Cat, immediately I started thinking about, you know, how can we connect cat people together? Because cat people, you know, they don't have dog parks. That's what we always say, right? So they don't have spaces where they can go and, you know, show pictures of their cats or talk to other cat people, like in person so much or so, you know, as easily.

[00:02:52] Emily Miethner: Cat people love talking about their cats. So, uh, right, right from the beginning - So we started very late 2017, so basically [00:03:00] 2018. You know, I started, Ik was always thinking about how can we bring people together? How can we get involved also in communities that already exist as well? Uh, so we started off by going to Cat conventions around the us

Jason Wong: That sounds fun.

[00:03:13] Emily Miethner: which was very fun. Uh, and then when Covid hit, you know, we had this big lineup of events to go to and we ultimately ended up planning our own virtual events, uh, throughout that time. And, uh, and so we actually recently, our biggest program we've done so far. We held a, a 700 personTravel Cat Summit

[00:03:36] Emily Miethner: totally virtual. So, you know, and in between all of those things, we've just created, what I call it, is basically created like a ladder of engagement for people to move from just buying products to, you know, much more beyond that.

[00:03:53] Jason Wong: And like, honestly, engaging with each other in a community just makes you love that product.

[00:03:59] Jason Wong: Um, I have [00:04:00] a friend who owns a hair company, like a hair extension company. She has like a Facebook group of 40- 50,000 people who just love hair extensions.

Emily Miethner: Wow.

Jason Wong: They just wanna share what they bought - their hauls. Um, a, a company within my portfolio, they do nails, just nail lovers, designs for nails, how you do nails.

[00:04:17] Jason Wong: And I think like building that kind of community, at least in my opinion, makes your brand a lot more approachable because it seems like you're in the trenches, you're in there. Um, rather than just saying, Hey, there's a barrier between brand  and customers, it's actually all tied in together now. Right. Um, I'm curious now, uh, what inspire you to start the

[00:04:36] Jason Wong: Cat backpack business Travel Cat.

[00:04:39] Emily Miethner:Yeah, absolutely. Well, my husband and I are the co-founders, so we are both serial entrepreneurs. But I always like to say it's cute that this business is the most successful one we've worked on, and it's the only one we work on together. Um, so we became unexpected cat parents when we rescued a kitten totally on a whim.

[00:04:57] Emily Miethner: Neither of us had ever had a cat before. [00:05:00] Right. And as we were researching, you know, how to become the best cat parents ever, you know, we realized two things. You know, one, there's a lot of misconceptions around what it is to be a cat parent and what you need to do to make sure they have a happy and healthy life. You know, a lot of people were saying to us, Well, you know, cats are easy.

[00:05:19] Emily Miethner: They sleep all day. You don't need to, you know, do anything with them. And it's really not true. Like cats need stimulation. They need engagement and play. Uh, so that was, you know, one big thing. And then the second big thing was we realized, you know, as entrepreneurs we're like, there's really not a lot of brands serving cats, specifically a lot of pet brands and there's a gajillion dog brands.

[00:05:42] Emily Miethner: Yeah. And then there's some that do both. But you know, we thought, you know, there's really a space here to create products that are truly dedicated towards cat people and everything are, um, yeah, it was just meant for cat people. And so with backpacks and cat harnesses, which are the two main [00:06:00] products that we sell.

[00:06:01] Emily Miethner: You know, the idea is, you know, giving people a way to safely explore beyond the great indoors, you know, get their cats some enrichment, whether that's, oh, taking their cat out on their New York City balcony, which is something that I do, you know, on the harness. Or we have people doing, you know, national park hikes in, in our cat backpacks, or, you know. It's a fun thing.

[00:06:23] Emily Miethner: It's very Instagram friendly, seeing cats and backpacks and whatnot, but it's also just a practical item. Every cat owner should have a carrier that their cat is comfortable getting into without it being super stressful. So, uh, it does just have that utilitarian use as well.

[00:06:41] Jason Wong: I love that. And, and it makes sense, like, like you said, it's functional.

[00:06:44] Jason Wong: Like people literally should have it if they have pets and they wanna take them out. Um, The pet space is interesting to me because everyone loves their pets just like their kids. And they're so passionate about, sometimes I will say like they love 'em more than their [00:07:00] kids because at least cats are pretty chill

[00:07:02] Jason Wong: Um, kids just run around and scream. Um, so, you know, like, tell me a little bit more about like, what is it like to sell a product to a group of people that are really cautious about what they buy for someone that they really care about. And you know, I see the same parallels to parents buying things for the kids.

[00:07:20] Jason Wong: Like they need to make sure that everything is really good. And, and like, what are some of the things that you're thinking about when you're thinking about community, when you think about the products, uh, even the way that you market it.

[00:07:30] Emily Miethner: Yeah, absolutely. Well, and we’re a bit of a premium product, so we're not luxury, but, um, you know, we do have a higher price point.

[00:07:38] Emily Miethner: So our best seller is $119, you know, so one thing that we realized right from the start is that, , you know, our target or, or the, the consumer profile that's buying our backpack It's not just what you might expect like a 30-something urban female who's, you know, fairly well off because it's a more, you know, high end product, right?[00:08:00]

[00:08:00] Emily Miethner: Uh, but you have a lot of people who, you know, live out in a town you've never heard of in the middle of the country and maybe normally shop at Walmart. But they wanna buy the best for their cats , right? Like you said, like they really care about, you know, the products for their cats and they're very discerning.

[00:08:14] Emily Miethner: So, uh, right from the beginning we always made sure that we were very inclusive with our marketing. So we're showing older people, we're showing younger people, people in all different types of environments and places and doing different types of things with the products. Um, and then also we always really focused on education and content from the start, because we definitely recognize that.

[00:08:37] Emily Miethner: This is a new thing, you know, taking your cats out of the house. You know, I would say at least half the people I tell about this company look at me like, What? What do you mean? You know, the cats wearing a backpack? You know, they're confused. They've never seen it. Uh, so, you know, we recognize that and we also recognize that.

[00:08:56] Emily Miethner: Uh, it's not the same as just taking your dog out, right? Like [00:09:00] it's, it's a different approach. Cats are different animals and so, uh, you know, we wanna build that trust and we wanna make sure people are successful with the products and using the products. So we do a lot of educational content. We have a lot on our site.

[00:09:13] Emily Miethner: We have a lot in our flows. And then we've been doing now again, about a year and a half now, these virtual programs where we get, we call them Travel Cat experts to host, you know, uh, breakout sessions during a workshop where people just ask questions and talk about their experiences. And, you know, one of the most amazing things, again, going back to building community, is then seeing these people who are our Travel Cat experts and people who just attended.

[00:09:41] Emily Miethner: And seeing them become friends, , you know, and we can tell their friends from the posts that they create on social or in our Facebook group or you know, they just tell us. You know, we actually, for example, there's um, a group up in Canada and this one person in our community [00:10:00] who's bought very, very early on, she threw a birthday party for her cat, and I think, I think like five out of the eight people there who all brought their cats, had the Travel Cat backpack, you know, and they, they were like, Oh, we got a group picture with all of us in our backpacks.

[00:10:16] Emily Miethner: So, you know, seeing, seeing that, um, connection to each other. Uh, you know, giving opportunities for people to see a diverse range of folks featured in our content and our programs, so they feel like, Okay, I can relate to that. I think I can do that. I can see myself doing that. I kind of relate to that person.

[00:10:36] Emily Miethner: That's, that's been a big part of it.

[00:10:37] Jason Wong: I love that. And you know, like touching on the point about, you know, your product, even though it has a somewhat premium price, It's not always geared towards someone who is extremely wealthy or like can just spend money, like it's nothing. It's at least like from my observation, and we actually talked about this with another guest, um, Lindsay McCormick [00:11:00] from Bite Toothpaste, She sells toothpaste bits, they are, I think three, four times more expensive than a toothpaste.

[00:11:06] Jason Wong: Um, and we're like, you know, like yes, it's a higher price tag, but it's not necessarily people who can afford it more. It's just people who prioritize that within their budget. Right? You know, like they might buy a more expensive toothpaste bit, but they might just buy plain black t-shirts because they don't really care about what they wear, but they care a lot about their oral health.

[00:11:25] Jason Wong: They might not care about eating out every night, but they care a lot about traveling with their cats safely. Uh, and I think that's a very important point for a lot of founders to know. Um, it took me a while to realize that I've always had this notion that you have to be a certain amount of, um, or have a certain amount of income or socio-economic background to buy luxury items when in fact look around you.

[00:11:47] Jason Wong: That's so far away from the truth. So, uh, I'm glad you also like, were able to realize that. I, I love the community aspects and I love the fact that your customers are wearing your stuff and coming together. It feels good to be kinda like the nexus [00:12:00] of how everyone knows each other. Like, Oh yeah, I met them in the cat group.

[00:12:04] Jason Wong: And you know, one thing that I would say people misunderstand about community is they think if you make a Facebook group, people will come. It's like they think if the, if you make a product, people will buy it. No. In fact, there needs to be a clear thesis for why people commit to these groups and why they keep coming.

[00:12:23] Jason Wong: I love that you have these cat backpack experts come in and do these talks because it's another way for new cat owners to ask questions, right? Like you're building this community with education, with content to educate people. And people will always look back, they look back at their cats and be like, Okay, I learned how to race them through this brand, and now I'm super loyal to that.

[00:12:45] Jason Wong: So community, at least, uh, from my view, needs to have a very clear reason for why people come back to. Just like how I'm in Facebook groups for Shopify owners or like shop, uh, or Facebook groups for like travel hackers. You know, like I wanna go back to read [00:13:00] what's new. You can't just make a group and be like, Yeah, we're cat backpack go mingle.

[00:13:06] Jason Wong: It just, it doesn't work like that.

[00:13:08] Emily Miethner: Right.  And, and I do think Facebook groups are great. Um, but they are a lot of work, you know, so we do have one. It's kind of ebbed and flowed in terms of the success we've had with it. But, you know, that's not the only way. And I know that, again, like the bonds created by those 700 people at the event who got to do cat themed you know, cat bingo with, uh, you know, a famous Instagram cat influencer.

[00:13:33] Emily Miethner: You know, those, those connections are stronger than, you know, them seeing occasional Facebook posts from time to time. Yeah. But it's good to have options you know, where people can find each other after the fact, you know? Right. So, you know, and, and we could, and it's very strategic in how we do our programming and how we pick people as well.

[00:13:52] Emily Miethner: You know, for instance, we do try to bring in new people as Travel Cat experts at these events, and we do really make [00:14:00] work to make sure we're not highlighting the same people on our Instagram feed because we totally could. You know, it's very easy to or to just say, Oh, well, you know, these people always take good stuff, good pictures, good videos.

[00:14:11] Emily Miethner: It's easy to talk to them, you know? But we're, we're always thinking like, we wanna bring new people in. We wanna get more people to have this experience of being an expert. That's also super powerful. Like giving people, you know, maybe their first chance to speak at any event ever in their life you know, um, is, is so exciting to people.

[00:14:32] Jason Wong: I mean, that's, that's extremely, um, that's a, that's a really big deal to a lot of

[00:14:35] Jason Wong: people. And I mean, you're giving a platform to people who never get public speaking gigs and you're allowing them to really talk about things that they love. That’s great energy. Like you feel that when you, when you see 'em talk.

[00:14:50] Jason Wong: And I love that. Um, you've been running this business for about five years now. Um, I think four years and nine months to be a little bit exact around there. Um, and, [00:15:00] and a lot of things happen when running a business. A lot of things you can never predict what storm hits and when it'll hit. So, you know, oftentimes we talk about successes.

[00:15:10] Jason Wong: I actually wanna talk about failures, like things that just completely knock you off your track. What was something that comes up to mind to you?

[00:15:18] Emily Miethner: Yes. Well, it is an easy question to answer because we had one incredibly horrible experience, uh, which was our experience with a 3PL, so third party logistics company.

[00:15:32] Emily Miethner: And you know, that was a case of, it was not one short mistake, it was a mistake that lasted over a period of about a year and a half in terms of the length that we worked with that company. Mm-hmm. And you know, it was obviously a lot of mistakes on their end, but also just a lot of mistakes on our end from being new.

[00:15:50] Emily Miethner: So that was that 3PL was the first company we started to use after we were knew we couldn't keep packing ourselves. You know that that [00:16:00] amazing inflection point where you can't keep up with your own orders, you know, and we just used one of those services that would sort of source you 3PL options.

[00:16:09] Emily Miethner: And we did a number of phone calls. We didn't just pick the first one, but we did pick the one that basically had the best salesperson. They had an amazing salesperson. They were one of the only ones that got back to us, and they were timely and so communicative. That was a huge reason why they wanted our business.

[00:16:24] Emily Miethner: And the day that we went to go to their supposed space in Brooklyn to do sort of a first day check it out, uh, they had you know, sort of pitched us. They had this big operation and we were backordered like hundreds of orders. And so they're like, Yeah, we could get those out in, you know, maybe one or two days.

[00:16:44] Emily Miethner: And we'd get there and there's one person and it's like an empty warehouse. It was like, they totally, you know, so that should have been the first red flag where we should have just said, forget it, and just started fresh. But we just kept [00:17:00] letting them, we were just thinking, Okay, well they're gonna fix it, so we'll just keep with them.

[00:17:06] Emily Miethner: So for instance, they were like, Oh, you know, our Brooklyn space is new, but we'll pay to truck all your goods to Texas where we have a bigger operation. So we did that and then there was just mistakes with QAing. There was mistakes with missed shipments. Just tons, just tons of mistakes. And, um, it was a really horrible experience.

[00:17:24] Emily Miethner: And, uh, eventually, and then the point that we were gonna switch was right before Covid hit, we were like ready to switch, and then Covid hit. And then of course they had tons of legitimate and then not legitimate excuses that happened during Covid. And then finally this summer, it was, I guess summer 2020, we said, you know what, we literally, there's no way we can do a worse job than these people.

[00:17:45] Emily Miethner: Let's just try it ourselves, . So we ended up, um, hiring a warehouse manager, bringing, uh, rent, renting a space like a month to month space in Queens where we’re at now. And it was the best decision we ever made. Really, [00:18:00] Uh, taking it in-house. Yeah. So we have now, so it's been about two years since we operate our own warehouse, our own fulfillment.

[00:18:08] Emily Miethner: And it’s incredible because you just have so much control. Over the products, over every, you know, such an important part of the customer experience is getting their goods on time and you know, we're really proud that we can ship orders in one to two business days. You know, we're kind of on Amazon level, you know, my husband and I shop on a lot of other e-commerce sites and we're oftentimes like, Whoa, this brand is bigger than us and it's taking way more time to arrive and even to be fulfilled.

[00:18:38] Emily Miethner: Uh, yeah, that I would say, you know, the moral of that story was it can be really painful to end a partnership, like a business partnership or something like that, and it could be costly, you know, to change and switch over. But, you know, we wish we had ended that relationship sooner. We let it drag out way too long because were were afraid [00:19:00] of the cost and the time it would take to switch.

[00:19:02] Emily Miethner: But, um, that was a big lesson for us.

[00:19:04] Jason Wong: Oh, absolutely. And, you know, I think like firing too slow. It's probably one of the biggest mistake that owners can do. And oftentimes we're clouded by our judgment because we think, Oh, maybe they should get a second chance. Or we kind of, if you’re kind hearted, you give them the benefit of doubt, you think, oh, maybe they're going through some troubles too.

[00:19:24] Jason Wong: Um, but, but truthfully, you do have to be very objective about weighing your options. Like when you look at when something doesn't feel right, start asking yourself the questions of like, Okay, why did it not go right? And is it something within their control that I think is totally within their control?

[00:19:40] Jason Wong: Or is it like, you know, God's will, Right? Um, and. And you just really need to cut when you need to cut. It's like cutting toxic friends off your life. It drags you down, it slows your business down and hurts you a lot. Right. Um, 3PL has always been a nightmare. No, I don't think anyone loves their 3pl.

[00:19:58] Jason Wong: And it makes sense. You bring it in [00:20:00] house. I do wanna ask a question for a lot of, like our new viewers. Like what are some of the things that you would’ve done in order to vet this 3PL better?

[00:20:09] Emily Miethner: Yes, So there's definitely good 3pl’s out there, and a big part of it is just what type of product do you have?

[00:20:16] Emily Miethner: And that's the thing that we didn't necessarily realize in the beginning is that, you know, there's, there's 3’s that all 3PL’s have some sort of specialty, unless they're maybe like the most enormous one. You know. So they might specialize or be better for if you are only doing DTC and you're literally, you're only doing DTC, uh, there might be others where they are cool with you doing DTC and wholesale and Amazon shipments.

Jason Wong: Right, Right.

[00:20:42] Emily Miethner: Because we're probably about 80% DTC from our own site, 10% Amazon, 10% wholesale, and some distributors, right? So we, you know, we would at this point, if we used the 3PL for them to be able to do those type of shipments, say to Amazon, [00:21:00] which are totally different than fulfilling, you know, um, uh, regular DTC.

[00:21:06] Emily Miethner: Um, orders. So it’s just understanding what type of orders do you have? Making sure that they're super confident that they can do those types of orders because you know, the issue happens when you get some 3PL’s, maybe more or so on the smaller side that are like, Yeah, we can do that. But it's not really something they do.

[00:21:25] Emily Miethner: It's not really a part of their operations. Um, and then it's, you know, things like how many SKUs you have. Um, how complicated, you know, we do a lot of bundling, for instance, right? So we have a smaller product line, but we have lots of different bundles. So is that something that you can handle? Um, do you have a consumable?

[00:21:44] Emily Miethner: Is your product perishable? Is it very breakable? You know? So I think it's just knowing exactly what type of products you have and really pushing them on. Are they good? Do they have other clients like that? I, that was a big thing I asked too. I said, I wanna talk to clients who use you. [00:22:00] And then also the big thing is you gotta go there.

[00:22:02] Emily Miethner: You gotta go and see one of the fulfillment centers, like you have to spend the money on flights. Because I mean, that was a big mistake for us. Like we should have flown down to Texas when that first problem happened. Right. And you know, and we didn't. And so yeah, those are my biggest things. Just really grilling them on what exactly your business needs.

[00:22:21] Emily Miethner: And it just does that work. And then, Flying there and meeting them or, or driving .

[00:22:27] Jason Wong: There's really no one 3PL that works for everyone. Uh, and like you said, there’s specialized ones. There are some people who are just amazing at small goods. Some are just only good at big goods. Um mm-hmm. . Mm-hmm. . So, so like, now that we got your questions, I'll just talk about like, some of the things that I also look for.

[00:22:45] Jason Wong: I ask about their team size for those specific locations. Don't tell me your entire company size, cuz that's beside the point  I want to know exactly for specific location where we're hosting inventory, how many pickers do you have? How many people are on admin? How many people are on like, specific teams [00:23:00] just to like figure out what their infrastructure is.

[00:23:02] Jason Wong: Um, I ask about what's their daily output and, and capability. Um, and based on like the amount of people that they tell me, I can kind of gauge if they're BSing or not because I mean, you have four people, but you can ship 10,000 units a day. I know you're BSing unless you have a machine, which is really fast. Um, I also look at other companies that they work with and I also reach out to those founders to get testimonials and, um, you know, I've definitely heard some where they’ll be like, Hey, I'm, I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm switching out.

[00:23:31] Jason Wong: And that's like a huge red flag. I’ve talked to 3PLs and agencies in general, and even like any freelancers I work with, I talk to them like I'm about to invest in them. Like, I just break it down. I need to know how your business is run if I'm gonna put my money into you, because it's like investing, you're investing your time.

[00:23:50] Jason Wong: You're investing your, the potential of your business. And to this person, I'm grilling them on like, Hey, I wanna talk to two references. I wanna understand, um, if your last [00:24:00] client left, why did they leave? Um, when was the last time you had a price hike for your pick and pack fees? That's a good one.

[00:24:06] Jason Wong: Um, if we're doing bundling, what are the fees you're associating? Are you doing it on based on hourly charges? Are you doing it per package? Try to like simulate, imagine you're running like SIMs for 3PL and play that game so much. Yeah. Think through like, okay, if I have this amount of packages every single month, 5,000 packaged, every single month, a thousand of 'em are bundles, run that through this 3PL and be like, Here's like the number of orders we have.

[00:24:31] Jason Wong: Here's the typical weight, here's how many items are in each. Um, how much would it be to do these things and you start cross referencing with others and you at least have a bench line for, for these numbers, right? Yeah. Uh, you can't just get like a single number from it. Also, I wouldn't say watch out for good salespeople, but never let them wound you.

[00:24:48] Jason Wong: Um, because cuz easy, they're good. Like that's their entire job. But like when, when things are, like, when you're feeling, you're catching feelings, that's when you guys step back and, and like [00:25:00] slap yourself a little bit and be like, Okay, they're good at talking. But do they have things to substantiate their claims?

[00:25:05] Jason Wong: Right. Like everybody tell you. Right?

[00:25:07] Emily Miethner: Yeah. And I think some people might be listening to both of what we're saying and think like, Damn, that's a lot of work. And it is. And I think a 3PL is one of the most important things like we had when we were pursuing others. You know, they asked, they should be asking you for like you said, like box sizes and you know, all these very detailed information.

[00:25:30] Emily Miethner: Like you should know your average shipping cost so you can compare them. So it is a lot of work to do your research so you can ask the right questions and give them the right information. But it's so important and, and I do think people should be wary. You know, there might, I don't even know if they exist or in what form at this point, but you know, of us, you know, wehad the experience of using that sort of, Oh, put in your information and then we'll tell you the best 3PLs.

[00:25:57] Emily Miethner: Yeah. Yeah. And it makes you feel like, Oh, well, they know [00:26:00] what I want. So if they're suggesting this, it must be good. Mm-hmm, no.

[00:26:03] Jason Wong:. Yeah. Those, those are just lead gen engines. It's like when you put it like, uh, like you wanna sell your car with your mileage and they sent this to like a thousand brokers. Yeah.

[00:26:13] Jason Wong: But yeah, no, those are all very good tips. And honestly, like, hopefully this episode helps a few people because 3PL will just derail your business because you have all your money, your money's tied up in your inventory, your inventory tied up to the warehouse. That, that's going to really hurt your business.

[00:26:32] Jason Wong: And you know, Emily, thank you so much for coming onto a show, sharing all this knowledge with us. Uh, you truly have a very fun and incredible product. Uh, I personally think there's a huge market for something like that and super excited to keep watching it from the sidelines and see what you can keep building.

[00:26:47] Jason Wong: Thank you so much.

[00:26:48] Emily Miethner: Thanks for having me.

[00:26:48] Jason Wong: You just heard an episode of the Building Blocks Podcast. If you like what you heard, subscribe below to keep hearing conversations that I have with brilliant marketers, founders and innovators on how they built their best [00:27:00] ideas. Now, if you wanna learn how you can turn your best ideas and build something massive out of it, visit my website, bbclass.co or follow my twitter @eggroli.

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